November 15, 2007

Mark Paniccia and Greg Pak talk Hulk

With the annoucement yesterday of the upcoming Hulk comics, including the son of Hulk, Mark Paniccia and Greg Pak have done interviews to talk all about them! Listed below is an interview with Newsarama

"SPOILERS FOR WORLD WAR HULK #5 AHEAD

And it’s over.

World War Hulk ended this week with both a bang and a whimper. The cataclysmic battle between the Hulk and the Sentry took place on the streets of New York with enough ferocity, panel-busting splash pages, sound effects and exclamation points for the fight to be the clear heir to some of Stan Lee’s finest.

But in the end – again, tragedy. With a new birth…and signs of change.

As we have with each issue to date, we caught up with World War Hulk writer Greg Pak and Editor Mark Paniccia to talk about the story, and get the inside view of the battle, the aftermath, and those teases in the back of the issue.

Newsarama: So – to get into this final issue, the story picks up right where it left off from World War Hulk #4, with the heroes beign forced to battle thanks to the obedience discs they’ve been outfitted with. What are the disks doing to the heroes? Compelling them to do the Hulk's wishes? Totally overtaking their motor systems?

Greg Pak: Yes and yes. Those disks are trouble. Even the Silver Surfer couldn't overcome his obedience disk by himself in the gladiatorial arenas of Sakaar during the "Planet Hulk" saga.

Mark Paniccia: We sure could use them around the office!

NRAMA: A quick aside - yeah, the larger continuity questions can cause headaches, but what about more micro-continuity, that is, how long has it been since World War Hulk started? A week? A handful of days?

GP: Just a couple of days. The Hulk and his crew struck hard and fast -- they knew that they'd lose the edge if they gave the heroes any more time to organize.

NRAMA: Guys, explain the Hulk's mindset in the arena a little - "we came for justice, not murder." This is the Hulk we're talking about here, who sees things in a black and white fashion. Isn't "eye-for-an-eye" justice in that regard? Killing the members of the Illuminati would be that kind of justice, wouldn't it? Just showing the world that they are the monsters feels kinda...Twilight Zone twisty rather than justice....

GP: The Hulk's never been a murderer. He loves to threaten murder. And he's killed before, in wars or in self-defense or when he was driven mad. But he's never knowingly killed an innocent in cold blood. Furthermore, his experiences fighting alongside the Warbound and the people of Sakaar during Planet Hulk changed him -- he became the Green King, the liberator of Sakaar, the hero protector of entire world. Given that context, his sparing the Illuminati makes sense -- he's showing them what he and believes a true leader does. And even if you still want to think of the Hulk as a monster, sparing the Illuminati can make sense -- a really vicious person might actually take more pleasure from watching his enemies humiliated and hated than dead.

MP: Remember that at the heart of the Hulk is Bruce Banner, a noble man who risked his life to save an innocent. What happened on Sakaar was enough to push anyone to the brink, but deep down, killing in cold blood is something a real monster would do, not a hero, not someone who would jump in front of a bomb blast to save another human. But hey, even I thought he was gonna kill ‘em at the end!

NRAMA: Before we get into the fight between the Hulk and the Sentry, Greg, what kind of power does the Sentry have over the Hulk? We saw in Paul’s [Jenkins] original stories that he could calm the Hulk down and make him feel good, but that was the savage Hulk. Do his powers still work on the cunning Hulk we've got here, or can he just brush them off?

GP: The Sentry's traditionally had the power to calm the Hulk -- the theory was that it hurt to be the Hulk, and the Sentry's mere presence soothed that pain. But that power doesn't work on the Hulk any longer. The Hulk's just too angry and strong. Or maybe his anger is a different kind -- maybe it's a righteous anger that he's accepted and embraced to such a degree that he doesn't need or want the relief the Sentry once had to offer.

NRAMA: When you've got someone like John Romita Jr. ready and more than able to draw a fight between the Hulk and the Sentry, do you bother choreographing that much of it in your script, or just write, "They fight for seven pages, like two gods at the birth of the universe?" Seriously, can we see some of the script?

GP: Sometimes I go into great detail about the choreography -- if there's a specific plot or character point that needs to be nailed, I might need to lay it out panel by panel. But other times, working with John, the best thing is to open the gate and back the heck away. For example, here's some of what I wrote for the big Sentry/Hulk battle:

PAGES SIXTEEN AND SEVENTEEN

VARIOUS PANELS

The Hulk battle to end all Hulk battles. This is the Hulk at his absolute peak, fighting an almost cosmically powered individual.

These first two pages should show the Sentry blazing with inconceivable power -- the Hulk’s flesh is getting burnt from his body, but the Hulk keeps fighting him. Fearlessly. Taking every blow -- and returning every blow. Entire blocks shatter.

The other heroes evacuate civilians as the city crumbles around them -- and watch in awe and horror.

Maybe the second page ends with a explosion that looks like it should certainly destroy both the Hulk and the Sentry.

PAGE EIGHTEEN

VARIOUS PANELS

But the Hulk and Sentry clash on in the fiery debris -- both are broken and shattered -- but that just makes their blows more wild and dangerous. The Sentry’s energy tentacles are shredded and jagged -- but they’re still flailing, insanely destructive, ripping up the city around them.

PANEL X

Close on the Sentry. Jagged tentacles shredding the debris in the background. Staring into the Hulk’s eyes as they clash -- an eerie combination of terrible fear and terrible joy in his eyes as it dawns on him that he might just destroy the world today.

SENTRY: C- can’t stop.

PANEL Y

Tony, shaking, black blood streaming from his nose and maybe eyes, stares upwards, using his Extremis powers, trying to take control of the satellites. Reed behind him, maybe with his arms wrapped around him, as if trying to hold Tony together. Tony looks like he’s dying.

REED: It’s got to be now, Tony.

PANEL Z

Angle on the satellites in space, starting to shift under Tony’s command.

So it goes from no individual panel descriptions in the first part of the battle to more specific panel descriptions as we get into more complicated cross-cutting on the next page. It's also worth noting that I knew I'd add more dialogue to these pages to flesh out the development hinted in that "C- can't stop" line, but I waited until I saw Johnny's pencils to see exactly where and how that dialogue would play. It's an incredibly satisfying, organic way to work -- I can't say enough about how exciting and inspiring it was to work with Johnny -- and the entire creative team -- on this book.

MP: And there’s no way around the fact that Johnny’s one of the best visual story tellers in the industry. No one else could have done this book and given it the power and emotion it has on every page. It’s, in my humble opinion, the best stuff Johhny’s done. He worked hard on this, from making sure the perspective played framing action on a subconscious level to making sure the military copters were authentic. Johnny will even tell you this was one of the toughest gigs he’s ever tackled, but he rose to the occasion and knocked this thing out of orbit.

NRAMA: Okay - it's no KRAKABATHROOM! from the earlier issue, but one of the sound effects - VJJJWOMMMVVVVVVB - what does that sound like? Do the consonants give it a more metallic sound?

GP: Assistant Editor Nate Cosby is the World War Hulk sound effects guru. I think he records explosions and lighting strikes and cantaloupe smashings in his basement and runs the sounds through a transcription program on his laptop.

MP: He’s already had several visits from the Fire Dept. His poor neighbors!

NRAMA: Getting back to the fight - after the Sentry really lets go, he's changed his attacks - they're open-handed in nature...what gives? Is he just smacking the Hulk around, or is the energy at his command moving in time with his hands?

GP: Nine out of ten scientists agree that the power of a million exploding suns radiates better with the open palm attack.

NRAMA: Also with the Sentry - he's pretty much beyond pain at this point, isn't he? After all, he's getting the crap kicked out of him too...

GP: Yeah, he's reveling in the insane exhilaration of shedding all his inhibitions and finally unleashing all that power. But when the buzz wears off, those Hulk haymakers are gonna sting.

NRAMA: The Sentry’s "Goodbye old friend" - what was that prelude to? I don't mean to sound like the guy who only saw the special effects and missed the story - but what happened to the Sentry and Hulk to change them back to Bob and Bruce? Was this Bruce consciously deciding to stop, to save the world by sending the Hulk away?

GP: "Goodbye old friend" is the Sentry's way of saying that he figures they're both going to die now that he's unleashed his power so completely. Bob and Bruce appear because these two megaheavyweights have pounded each other so hard and so long that they've forced each other to revert to their respective puny human forms.

MP: And thank God they weren’t naked!

NRAMA: What an…interesting thing to bring up…

MP: Just saying…

NRAMA: Bruce, with the eyes of green...that's a...new look for him, huh? What's it signify?

GP: It's Bruce and the Hulk achieving a new equilibrium for one brief, shining moment. Ah, what could have been...

MP: This was something Greg and I talked about a lot in the past--the merging of the two personas…the potential of a Banner/Hulk amalgamation. It’s something you see come to fruition in “Peaceful Planet”, the second story in the What If? Featuring Planet Hulk that came out last month. But it’s a cool concept that may, some day, be explored further.

NRAMA: Miek's target – and there’s a lot of question about this among readers - was he gunning for Rick, or for Bruce? If he was aiming for Bruce, what was his plan, his reason to hurt his Warbound?

GP: Miek was aiming for Bruce -- to force him to turn back into the Hulk and finish the destruction that Miek believes is the Hulk's entire reason for being. Miek doesn't see that as hurting the Hulk -- he sees it as fulfilling his Warbound oath by helping the Hulk become who he's destined to become.

NRAMA: Following Miek's confession...the rage the Hulk feels - while he's been off the charts before, does this top that? From what was shown, I'd gather that this revelation is just too much for him - something that he can't process or even make sense of in a fashion?

GP: You got it.

MP: Yeah, you’re looking at someone in shock. Especially the Banner side that’s running the numbers and looking at how this all circles back to the lessons he’s imparted on Miek, the impact he’s had on his fellow humans and quite possibly going back to the day he dreamed up the gamma bomb. This is a mental meltdown of super nova magnitude.

NRAMA: And that rage - the Hulk we see...that’s the Worldbreaker, right? His very steps are causing fissures to open...he's an elemental force at this point, right?

GP: Absolutely. I love some of Christina Strain's coloring choices here -- light is streaming from the Hulk's eyes -- he's radiating an insane amount of energy.

NRAMA: Even as the Hulk realizes that Tony and Reed must take him down, Miek is trying to get him to fight it. What's Miek's goal here?

GP: Miek believes the time has come for all things to end, for the Worldbreaker to wash away this world of hate and pain so that the next thing can come.

NRAMA: What did the weapon from Tony do to the Hulk?

GP: As Tony indicates before firing the satellites, there hasn't been enough time to calculate the effects of these combined rays. We know they hit the Hulk hard enough to force him to revert back to Banner and for Banner to revert to a catatonic state. Who knows what happens beyond that -- although I'd hazard a wild guess that this may have something to do in some way with Jeph Loeb's upcoming Red Hulk. That's just a wild guess, though, of course.

NRAMA: Right – just a guess. Hey - Black Bolt’s back...this is pre-New Avengers: Illuminati #5...so is that still Black Bolt, or is that Skrull Bolt?

GP: Heh. Excellent question. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

NRAMA: Okay - let’s talk about the end result here - they tuck Bruce away under Gamma Base, but man...it still sucks for him. I mean, seriously, cue the sad piano music from the end of the television series. Hulk gets sent away against his will, everything is destroyed, comes back, literally sacrifices himself to save the world, and in the end, boom - he's locked up in what looks to be a chemical coma? Are there any happy stories for the Hulk?

GP: Yeah, he can't seem to catch a break, huh? But this is precisely what's made the Hulk such a compelling character for decades. He does what we all wish we could do -- when he's wronged, he rages. And that's an incredibly satisfying vicarious pleasure for us as readers. But as I wrote in the afterward to the Planet Hulk hardcover, rage, no matter how justified, has a price. That's the truth and tragedy of the Hulk -- and it's the massive theme that we've been building for almost two years since the beginning of Planet Hulk in Incredible Hulk #92. Now with "World War Hulk" #5, we finally see exactly what that price is and how it's been it's been paid by our hero and his friends.

But I do have a story for those who ache for a happy ending for the Green Goliath. Alas, it's a What If. But check out the second tale in the What If: Planet Hulk book for a peek at how the whole being-shot-into-space thing could have worked out for our hero.

MP: But the simple answer is “No”. Green is not —unfortunately for ol’ jade jaw—the color of joy.

NRAMA: Okay - the scene on Sakaar. As you mentioned prior to this, the world was not destroyed at the end of Planet Hulk - it's more primeval, but it's still there.

GP: Correct. The Warbound's "world" was destroyed in that Crown City and a million of the Hulk's followers were incinerated and great chunks of the landscape were shattered, but the planet's still spinning 'round out there.

NRAMA: This green guy - did he wake up as a result of something happening on earth, or was he just popping up?

GP: All will be revealed in early 2008 with the debut issue of Skaar: Son of Hulk. It's gonna be massive, friends -- dontcha dare miss it!

NRAMA: And that would be Skaar…the son?

GP: Yes, indeed. The son of the Hulk and the Shadow Warrior Caiera the Oldstrong. Check out Carlo Pagulayan's depiction of the character in the back pages of World War Hulk #5. If you loved Planet Hulk and World War Hulk, you're not going to want to miss Skaar: Son of Hulk.

MP: Yeah, Skaar is going to be something fans of WWH and Planet Hulk will really enjoy. There are a lot of cool touches that Greg’s putting on it but it’s very visceral and epic. He’s Genghis Khan but with the Pak twist.

NRAMA: And meanwhile, Hulk's book is usurped by Herc and Amadeus? Can you give us just a quick taste of what their adventures will be like?

GP: A ridiculously fun and sometimes surprisingly moving exploration of the insane amount of trouble that the planet's most irresponsible god and most incorrigible teen genius can make when they put their minds and muscles to it. Crazy hijinks, tons of smashing, occasional deep thoughts, and gorgeous art by Khoi Pham. Co-written by yours truly and the genuinely brilliant Fred Van Lente.

MP: That says it all! The book’s turned out to be a personal fave of mine. The art is fantastic and the story that Greg and Fred are telling is really cool and entertaining and filled with some of the best superhuman battles this side of World War Hulk.

Newsarama Note: According to Jim McCann of Marvel’s Sales Communication department, Incredible Herc is the permanent, ongoing status of the former Incredible Hulk series. Retaining the former series numbering starting with next month’s issue #112, the title officially changes to Incredible Hercules with issue #113.

Sakkar: Son of Hulk is an ongoing series launching in March.

NRAMA: Overall, looking back, did WWH work out the way you originally thought it would? Were there any changes along the way that you didn't anticipate? Any that you wished you could have implemented?

GP: I still wish I could have found a way to work Morbius the Living Vampire and the Deathlok Cyborg and Dragon Man into one of the tie-in books. Ah, regrets...

MP: We pretty much got everything in that we hoped for. There were some different ideas brought to the table way back when Planet Hulk was being put together, but I think we would up with a helluva tale.

NRAMA: And, you’ve kept saying, WWH was Act II. When does Act III start, and who's playing key roles in it? Safe to say that the events in Hulk, Herc, and Skaar are building towards it?

GP: Act III is Skaar: Son of Hulk. It will take the themes and world of Planet Hulk and World War Hulk to the next level with the insane, epic story of a son of rage fighting for survival on a savage planet.

And let me also take a second to plug the World War Hulk: Warbound miniseries, which debuts in December, written by me with blisteringly awesome art by Leonard Kirk. The book will focus on the Hulk's Warbound companions Korg, Hiroim, Brood, and Elloe as they escape New York and find themselves in the middle of a new crisis in the New Mexico desert featuring one of the Hulk's former loves and one of the Hulk's greatest enemies. The book will carry through on big threads from World War Hulk while laying critical groundwork for future stories. The book will also feature "Tales of the Warbound" backup stories that will shed additional light on these Warbound heroes and continue to build the history and mythology of Planet Sakaar -- again, not to be missed if you dug "Planet Hulk" and "World War Hulk."

MP: Look for Skaar, Son of Hulk in the early part of 2008.

GP: And one last thing to all the readers, reviewers, and retailers who have been buying and talking up these books -- you guys are the best.

MP: Yeah, we couldn’t have done it without ya!"

Mark also did an interview with Comic Book Resources:

"SPOILER WARNING: This article may contain spoilers for "World War Hulk" #5.
In yesterday’s "World War Hulk" #5, the Hulk’s crusade against the heroes of the Marvel Universe came to an end when he chose to sacrifice himself to save the Earth. Whether Bruce Banner is dead or just catatonic is presently uncertain, but in either case the defiant spirit of his green alter ego will live on in three new Marvel Comics titles: December’s "The Incredible Herc" by writers Greg Pak & Fred Van Lente with art by Koi Pham; the previously announced, new adjectiveless "The Hulk" series starring a red hued Hulk by Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness, which hits stores in January; and the 12-issue "Skaar: Son of Hulk" maxiseries by writer Greg Pak and an artist to be announced later, which launches in 2008. CBR News spoke with editor Mark Paniccia about "Skaar" and "The Hulk"

"Skaar" and "The Hulk" are ideas that went into development during the early planning stages of "World War Hulk." "They have indeed taken on lives of there own but they were natural and organic elements of the story from the get go," Mark Paniccia told CBR News.

Given his emergence from a pool of green goo on the planet Sakaar on the last page of "World War Hulk" #5, some might wonder if Skaar is the Hulk’s son in the traditional sense of the word. "Skaar is indeed the son of Hulk and Caiera the Oldstrong," Paniccia confirmed. "He is half Gamma-mutated human and half Shadow Person and 100% kick @$$!"

Though his father may not have been there to raise him, Skaar is a chip off the old Gamma- irradiated block. "He is very much indeed his father's son as you'll see-in many ways, but hey, if you grew up in a radioactive puddle on a world as savage and brutal as Sakaar (and no comic shops in site, to boot), you probably wouldn't be smiling either," Paniccia said.

Skaar’s defiant demeanor will lead to grim and grand adventures on the post-apocalyptic planet Sakaar. "This will be a fast paced, visceral series with all the goodness of a Greg Pak epic," Paniccia said. "If you're a fan of barbarian comics, you're going to love this book. If you liked ‘Planet Hulk,’ you're gonna love this book. If you liked ‘WWH,’ you're going to...well, you get the idea. Greg's got some really cool ideas brewing so you'll get a healthy dose of all things that made his recent work so great. I knew we hadn't seen the last of Sakaar and it's great to be back. Even though a big part of it's been wiped off the face of the map, it's such a rich environment that the possibilities are endless."

Sakaar may have seemed like a harsh world in "Planet Hulk" but the shape of the planet than is a paradise compared to how it appears in "Skaar: Son of Hulk." "Crown City has been decimated and where it once stood is a deadly radioactive zone," Paniccia explained. "There is still the Fillian Empire and scattered tribes, but the destruction that has taken place will probably put a great deal of the inhabitants in danger."

While the exact details of the Red Hulk’s adventures are being kept under wraps, one thing is for certain: the escapades of the new Crimson Crusher will be full of excitement and enigmas. "There is indeed a mystery beyond the question of who is the Red Hulk but I'd be spoiling if I went into details," Paniccia said. "Just know that Jeph's planning on giving fans a conspiracy they can sink their teeth into."

When readers look at the star of the new "Hulk" series they are literally seeing red and would be right to expect the new series to feature an even angrier Hulk and a darker tone. "It's a darker Hulk, yeah, but it's a real roller coaster ride filled with heart-pounding action and thrill-a-minute coolness on pretty much every page," Paniccia said. "You're going to need an oxygen mask for this one."